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Hey, I just saw this on e-bay! Thought one of the Feri folk here may want this for their altar...
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Badger
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Badger
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 21, 2006 - 5:47 AMIt's very interesting to notice that this Deity is called 'the Kumara' in some hymns, and Kymari is a title commonly given to Nimuë, the Faery Maiden Goddess. Also notice that this Deity's peacock holds a snake ('it's enemy', according to the article below the picture), while our Feri Peacock God has a snake holding its feet, representing the Goddess holding the mighty God from being let too lose and threaten the balance of the Universe. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 21, 2006 - 5:36 PMThere is also the Kumari from Nepal, the child goddess, which may be the origin of this title for Nimue:
www.visitnepal.com/nepal_in...umari.php
Interestingly, the peacock and the serpent in both cases are opposites or opposing forces who are represented "joined" in some way.
Badger -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:26 AMHey, this is an insightful way to look at the relationship between the Peacock and the Serpent. In the lineage I train in, the Serpent is God Her Self holding the almighty Peacock because if he were loose, 'he would rend the Worlds'. In her website, Anaar writes that the Serpent and the Peacock are the Twins (which weren't taught by my teacher) and now we see them depicted as enemies.
In whatever case, One needs the Other for Balance. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:29 AMHey now, something that just occured to me, part of an insight: If Krsna (Visnu) is the Peacock and Shiva is the Serpent, how can the relationship between these two Gods help us better grasp this Peacock-Serpent duality? -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 11:36 AMwww.globalpsychics.com/lp/sup...ock.htm
Notice how, according to this totally NON-academic source, in Egypt the Peacock is a companion to Isis. Isn't She associated with Snakes?? -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:09 PMAwen:
Yup. Isis (especially when she came to Greece and Rome) was particularly associated with snakes. Check out the Iseum tribe for photos demonstrating this ;-)
She may've become associated with the peacock in Rome because of Juno, the Queen of Heaven... but, maybe the association was older? (Of course, Juno only became associated with the peacock herself after being identified with Hera...)
Mike:
You are a son of Danbala? It is an honor to meet you!
Badger
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Danbala Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:21 PM<,Mike: You are a son of Danbala? It is an honor to meet you! >
Aww shucks, thanks, now it aint a rare thang! :-) My houngan has him too. And well, he owns all the heads so technically everyone is his child! :-P -
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Re: Danbala Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:27 PMWell, I have alot of respect for the lwa, though I myself serve the orisha. (And a few lwa are probably the same spirits as orisha.)
PS- Your description of Danbala sounds like Obatala... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Karttikeya/Murugan/Skanda
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:40 PMThis refers to a statue of Murugan:
"Karttikeya, the god of war, and general of the army of the gods is the younger son of Siva and Parvati. According to most Pauranic legends he was born from Siva’s spurt of semen and was thus conceived without the participation of a female being. He was reared by six Krttikas; hence he is known as Kartikeya.
The son of Siva is seen here with four arms, holding the prescribed attributes. He rides on a peacock called the year (Paravani). The peacock is the killer of serpents which are also seen on either side of Kartikeya; the serpents representing the subtle instincts that bind the spirit of man in his body and Kartikeya defeats that. The serpents, further more, represents the cycle of the years. The peacock is thus the killer of Time. Although he is called the god of war, there is no aggression on his face, which looks peaceful on the contrary. The peacock is modeled gracefully with large wings on either side and its spectacular feathers behind the image. The whole image is enclosed in an oval ring of fire, similar to that which surrounds the Nataraja Siva.
Kartikeya is commonly known as Skanda and Kumara, in South India where he is more popular and has a large cult following.
This description by Renu Rana."
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Re: Danbala Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:51 PM<<Your description of Danbala sounds like Obatala...>>
Well in Gineh we have Ogou Batala, that's how Obatala manifests for us. -
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Re: Danbala Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 5:02 PMYes, I've heard of Ogou Batala. However, in Lukumi/Regla de Ocha/Santeria, Obatala is known as the owner of all heads. It seems that Ogou Batala may be more like one of the warrior caminos (roads) of our Obatala, such as Ayagunna. In general though, Obatala is more concerned with peace and wisdom and creativity, the father-mother of all the orisha, and to whom all white (cool, clean) things are sacred. That's why Danbala sounds like Obatala. ;-)
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 3:24 AMYet more mythical images of Peacocks associated with Snakes. Click on www.winshop.com.au/annew/Pavo.html and scroll down to 'The Symbolism of Peacocks'.
Maybe the Peacock as opposed/joined/twinned to the Snake is like the Oak King opposed/joined/twinned to the Holly King too? Maybe that's a way to symbolize a Feri Wheel Year Mythology?? -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 2:51 PMI've always thought it was a very close similarity too. The Feri trad isn't concerned with fertility, though. It's more of a 'child as byproduct, orgasm as goal' group than the other way around. Fertility is a result of ecstasy, rather than the opposite.
So, there might be a good thing in that. The Peacock's dance with the Snake... hmmm -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 4:00 PMROFL...omg, that is great. That is totally my personal M.O.
Nyte (aka Morgan) -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 5:48 PM -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 6:44 PMwow, a wealth of information on this deity is here, for those who are interested:
murugan.org/research/balambal.htm
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 7:44 PMWell, Melek Ta'us and the Wind Serpent (Lord of the Green Flame) are an option for the Red Man and Green Man -- though RM and GM Proper are more like Krom Rudd and Dian y Glas. :-P Ah, Mysteries, Mysteries... -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Sat, February 25, 2006 - 4:23 PMWeyull Ob... aside from the very ancient Red/Set + Green/Osiris thing already noted.. I've come across a reference to Cherokee lore (I believe it was on SacredTexts.org or something) that included reference to a being called "Red Man".. just like that.. who sounds a lot like "our" "Red Man", at least one of them... and it is just as likely that this Red Man (related to animals) got confabulated with the Celtic Green Man of vegetation and thereby paired up in a natural polarity as the Irish and Scots immigrants in good ol Appalachia mixed and mingled with the Cherokee resulting in what "we" have much as anything else.
Mysteries aren't always so mysterious for those willing to dig, listen and learn. And the "real story" is often only available if you take the advice the Buffalo Man gives Shadow in American Gods to heart:
Believe Everything.
So a question one would necessarily have to put to your statement using "THE" is "which Red Man and Green Man" because there are several, and I doubt any of them are very "proper", being incarnations of wild untamed natural forces. I'd wager they are all quite IMproper. probably don't know WHAT to do with that extra fork or that little bowl of water at all.. at all.. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Sat, February 25, 2006 - 5:06 PMMike, you crack me up ;-)
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 11:36 AMHey, I was just passing on some lore that I learned from the founder of the Night Hares line of Feri. Do with it what you will. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 3:36 PMWell it helps if you don't smugly hint at possessing some sort of secret superior knowledge and cluck things like "Ah, Mysteries, Mysteries..." That may not have been intended but that is how it came across the pixels.
It would also help if one did not have to look at your tongue every time you post something.
And remember Phaory has different lines and different streams, and not everything is held by all lines in common. "Mysteries" are generally to be shared in context, too.
To give a context it could be helpful to say like "In Night Hares, so and so deity is often seen as ____" rather than blurting out that "so and so IS _____" as if that were important or held to in all lines, cultures, or experiences of all Artists working in this current.
Coz put 5 Phaories in a room and you get 9 different opinions. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 9:36 PMGee... and things were going so nice too...
I, for one, happen to like looking at Oberyn's tongue. To each their own, I guess. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 10:03 PMagreed. Oberyn's tongue definitely deserves consideration!
I say we vote for OberynTongue for president!
*grins*
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 10:37 AMi don't mind the tongue, either. mind you, i'm a bit biased here ; )-
i also didn't read any kind of know-it-all-ness into his post, but maybe i'm missing something??
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 5:08 AMMy teacher advocates that we are not a community. You advocate we are. I, following a Third Road, say we are a dysfunctional community.
Well, accept things as things are.
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 3:37 PMWhy thank you dear Storm. It's much nicer in person, at that. ;-)
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 10:56 AMPlease read my posts with much mirth in mind. I'm mirthful. Sometimes overly so.
Blessings and a hug to you, Mike.
-Obie
P.S. Like Storm and Rune, I agree that my tongue is a good thing. I hath named it The Pleasure Bringer, King of the Leaky Spear and Lord of the Hollow Valley. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 1:29 PM*bows to the tongue*
Greetings your Squishyness... and Good Morning!
May you find... pleasure in your work!
*grins mischievously* -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 3:38 PM*waggles* ;-)
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 9:28 AMI think the recent Pantheacon really helped a lot of us in the tradition. There were many Feris there and we spent a lot of time talking, not arguing. There really didn't seem to be any of the contention that normally seems to arise. The meeting of each other and talking for hours and hours, really seems to help.
The deliberately looking for ways to be offended however doesn't. While Feri has many lines, and different streams I am finding that really we are a lot more alike than we are different. True we each have our own differences, but the thing is we also have much more that we are alike. The differences have more to do with individual teachers interests than how Feri is alike or different. Feri is Feri is Feri is Feri is.....
The power is the same, the secrets are the same. The rest is just Drag... -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 2:05 PM*laughs*
Excellent! I call the Peacock God Drag!
Although I think Thorn's got better clothes for it than I do. Did everyone see her shawl? *burns with jealousy and admiration*
Damn... now THAT was superhot! -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 5:53 AMwe in her minnesota class gave that to her... hee!
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Mon, February 27, 2006 - 4:29 PMOh it occurred to me as I was pondering the Directions just now that I would be completely remiss if I didn't point out that circling the North Stellar Pole aka the Celestial Throne is the constellation Draco, the Snake.. [he used to sit ON the throne btw]..
And at the opposite hemisphere near the South Stellar Pole we have ... [drum roll please...]
Pavo the Peacock.
Cool eh? How's that for a "Pole"-arity?
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Mon, February 27, 2006 - 5:06 PMSo, the Serpent seems to be "on top"? ;-) -
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Another Link
Mon, February 27, 2006 - 8:49 PM
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 4:14 PMI'm not sure what you mean by "associated with snakes" in re Isis. Examples? Are you talking about the Uraios cobra in the royal crown she sometimes wears? That's part of the Pharaonic regalia.
And each culture is different, we don't have to get too excited and go looking for the same motif under every cultural rock now.. but that site doesn't cite their source, and I've never seen a sculpture from Egypt with peacocks in it that I recall. Not that I've seen it all either, so chunk of salt. If anyone can find a helpful image that'd be awesome. Peacocks are native to India and Persia, so they would have been a later introduction to Kemet via trade.. and this is also why the symbolism around Peacocks is so rich in India and the Persian/Kurdish areas of modern Iraq/ancient Mesopotamia etc. That's where people first encountered them.
If we want to talk Twins and Egypt though, let's not forget about Seth/Red God/Animal nature/Destructiveness and Osiris/Green God/Vegetal nature/Sustenance. Kemet has some awesome rich stuff.
Personally I'm really fond of Triplets. Specifically the Karshner Triplets.
www.thekarshnertriplets.com/
Now ThATs *DIVINITY* for ya!
mike
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 5:29 AM<<Interestingly, the peacock and the serpent in both cases are opposites or opposing forces who are represented "joined" in some way. >>
Right.. the Peacock is the celestial principle [the fanned tail like the circle of the starry heavens] and the Dragon/Big Snake is the chthonic/terrestrial principle. They embody the relationship between Spirit and Matter. They can be viewed either "struggling" or as "copulating" depending on how you feel about this relationship.
Also in Indian legend the peacock hunts and eats the snake, and alchemically transforms its venom into the colors of its plumage. And well we know how fond snakes are of eggs, peacock or otherwise, on the other side of the fence.. ha ha nobody knows that better than a child of Danbala! :-p -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 5:52 AMWow, do you know the name of this Indian legend?? It is very interesting.
By now, I was wondering where you and your two cents were, anyway. -
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 10:44 AM<<do you know the name of this Indian legend?>>
The thing about peacocks getting their color from eating cobras is not really *A* legend like "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow", or part of a myth cycle like the Iliad.. it is just an old belief in India. Like English legend says that faeries or elves dance in mushroom circles or old Greek belief states that hyenas changed their sex or were hermaphroditc. In other words it was just presumed common knowledge at one time.
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Re: Messenger of the Blue God/Peacock Lord
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 5:14 AMOooooooooooh my Gods, I am adoring every little tiny bit of this topic!!
